Vermont Site

[GrahamB]

Thanks for posting the link to the video CJ. That is one of my main goals this year, to catch as much water as possible.

[matt walker]

Right on CJ! Congrats on reaching so many goals. I'd love to discuss muck with you. I've put a lot of thought into it over the last year, thanks to you, mostly. If you feel like sharing your current thoughts, I'm all ears.

[CJ in VT]

Muck-wise, I think Paul's "paddock shift" system should take care of it. The problem is, I set up one of those instant garages just outside the fence and it's really handy for feeding. I use those 4' round bales and they haven't frozen to the ground so I can just roll them around to hand feed/ throw hay over the fence to the hay feeder. I do have 2 instant garages but one is dedicated to square bales for the sheep.

Maybe if I have 3 spots to store round bales I'll avoid muck. The other thought is to put the round bales in the paddocks (protected from weather) and then rotate the cows through. That would be ideal if we had a tractor. I've even seen special covers for sale so you can protect each bale.

I may throw down a bunch of sawdust in the mucky area in the spring because my new paddocks probably wont be ready yet.

[matt walker]

I guess I'm not familiar with that version of paddock shift. I just looked and only found the chicken stuff, but I didn't look too hard.

I do move my cows and sheep using electro net and "lanes" to manage the pastures, but like you I still have main traffic lines that I feel like I can't break away from without major infrastructure additions, and in my opinion, way more labor. I have a barn which I feed in and both cows and sheep seek shelter in in inclement weather. I have water in quite a few paddock locations but there are still times when the animals need to move a few hundred yards through the lanes for water.

All that means that the area right below my barn is a muck zone. It is wet enough it would almost be muck without animals. I think I remember seeing pictures where you had done something similar to my solution, which currently is to put a swale on the downhill side of the muck lane, with a fence right above it. I then do one of my sloped hugel beds coming up out of that swale. In this way I believe I am trapping the run off, charging the bed with moisture and nutrients. So far so good, although it's not perfect by any means. The animals never are standing around in the muck, they are always rotated to good pasture, but they pass through the muck area if they need shelter or are being fed. It's not perfect, and I hope to continue to refine it. It does work for me for now.

[CJ in VT]

My cows are standing in muck while they eat. But not right this second because there is so much ice I decided to lock the cows in the paddock with the 3 sided shelter. I was hoping to let the sheep in there to lamb which could start in 2 weeks.

The paddock shift is really just MIG I think. Managed Intensive Grazing. So ideally I'll have the cows in a paddock for say 3 days, then sheep 3 days, then chickens. Even with 3 new small paddocks they probably have to stay in the last paddock 3 weeks so the grass can recover in the 1st paddock. The new paddock wont have much forage anyway so I'll be feeding them hay in there anyway.

[pa_friendly_guy]

Cj, is the problem with the paddocks that they are not large enough for the number of animals? Or that they are new so the grass has not fully developed? Or is it too shady there to allow the grass pastures to take hold? Or is it some other problem that I have not thought of? Or a combination of the above options? Just wondered what direction you should go to improve the situation for yourself. I am sure there will be a way for you to improve your paddock system to meet your needs.

[CJ in VT]

We had some logging done on that site 6 years ago and asked the logger to remove stumps/prep for a garage & pasture and he bulldozed all the top soil off. There probably wasn't too much soil to start with because it's fairly ledgy and sloped.

The fertility has improved and I think with the proper rotational grazing it will be enough land in each paddock, especially with a few more smaller paddocks. We do need to open the canopy and here's a great shot of what starts growing:

by , on Flickr
another:

by , on Flickr

The sheep will eat a fair amount of this stuff, even the cows will.

Here's a paddock that's been open for a few years but like I said, a better rotational grazing plan should really improve things:

by , on Flickr

[pa_friendly_guy]

It seems that you are letting Nature take its course there. That is often a Great way to go, although it does take time for Nature to heal its self. The one early pioneer plant that you have growing there , the one that grows with the high spike of flowers, I believe they are yellow, is a great pioneer plant to put down deep roots, break up hard pan, set nitrogen, and add a lot of Bio mass. I forget the name of the plant right now, but I have read about its wonderful benefits to very poor soil. As a mater of fact I believe it only grows in very poor soil, as the soil improves other plants crowd it out. Nature does have a way of reclaiming its self. As long as the stock will eat it you have a winner with a bear minimum of work and expense. That sounds like a win win to me CJ.

[CJ in VT]

Mullein is the tall one with yellow flowers. I'm pretty sure it doesn't set nitrogen. Besides that it's a good pioneer plant. The stock actually don't eat it. They'll eat the bull thistle and even Japanese barberry a bit. Since it does all those other good things I've decided to let it and the bull thistle be. Plus they're both Biennial anyway. You can see a ton of dying bull thistle behind the sheep in the photo above.

[pa_friendly_guy]

Have you thought about trying to broadcast some seed of red clover, tall fescue, alfalfa, or other pasture grasses? Just wondered if you thought about helping nature along a bit, or if you felt because of the top soil being bull dozed that planting anything would be a waist of time and money? As you expand the paddocks into new areas that I assume have been in deep woods do you feel that it will be worth it to try planting grasses that are shade tolerant? Or do you feel that Nature has a better plan for what will grow as ground cover in the woods? I have always been one to try and sow seeds in the woods along my paths, it has been a very mixed bag as far as success for me. Some areas did grow grass very well, at least for awhile. Some areas never did grow any grass, just too much shade and too little top soil on some of the bull dozed pathways. Some areas still have grass cover, some areas the grass has died back, maybe because of shade, maybe because of tractor traffic. Some areas never have grown anything, they have not washed out badly, but they do not have a sustainable green ground cover with roots holding the soil in place either. Erosion is certainly a possibility into the future. I keep an eye on those areas.