Permsteading.com

With my little bit of ground (L shaped garden 7metres x 22metres) I have been working on my "food forest in zone 2 combined with my zone 5(??) native trees and shrubs" and my "urban garden" close to the house in zone 1. My request for advice concerns how closely I can plant my fruit trees and natives - I'm not looking for a "glut" of fruit from a single tree, rather a variety for throughout the year. I've researched until my eyes are hanging out of my head and I haven't found how close you can plant fruit trees to restrict their growth but still have them viable and producing fruit while surrounded by other food plants "a la food forest". So far I have 8 fruit trees in the zone 1 garden mixed with iris (to take up the excess nitrogen when the trees are dormant) and I plan to put quite a few more in the "food forest area" now that my canopy trees (natives) have grown. Any advice will be welcome otherwise I will begin making "learning experiences happen" again, and again until I get it right.....but think of all the little fruit trees probably starving to death in the meantime

Zone 2 food forest is approximately 7m x 18m and the balance is zone 1 urban.
Edit: all measurements done in girl steps so may not be quite accurate (stepped out, then reduced, to get approximate length and width)

What type of fruit tree are you planning on using Boo? Dwarf, semi-dwarf or standard. The size of the tree makes a huge difference in how many different varietys you might be able to put in that space. If you want more variety I would plant the dwarf type of fruit tree. If you want more shade with your fruit, plant the semi-dwarf. I feel your space is too small for standard size fruit trees. Keep in mind what needs a pollinator and what may not need that. I planted my semi-dwarf apple trees about 7 man paces apart and they have grown together now after 30 years. Dwarf tree can be put ALOT closer with out any problems. Good Luck.

Thankyou pa_friendly_guy..........hmmmm......I put standard fruit trees in my urban area but they are spread out along the fence line (possibly may need to be espaliered as they get bigger). I'll go and have another look at the dwarf fruit trees at the local nursery, but I'm pretty sure that I'll have to buy two of each so that they X pollinate - if I go with dwarf trees can I just pack them in (say 4-5 feet apart) along where my "path" will be? Or do I need to reduce the amount of fruit trees I can squish in?

I have never planted Dwarf trees, so I do not know the best spacing, maybe someone else here can help you. I would ask the people at the Nursery who sell them about size and spacing, they should be the experts. Look for an Old Guy to talk with, I trust Old Guys a little bit more, they have already had their Learning Experiances, lol. The Standard trees along a fence or property line should be fine. I hope that they are on the North side, opps, you are down under, the South side of your yard. That way when they get tall, 40 to 50 feet tall, they will not shade the rest of the garden. That was one very good point that they made in the Ca video, they planted all of the tall trees on the North line, and came southwards with lower and lower trees so they did not shade each other out. That is a Good Idea to steal from them.

Hahahaha, Old Guys and Learning Experiences. Too funny. Boo, I am not an expert by any means, but what I understand is that if you want to grow a food forest you need to space the trees farther apart than you would in a typical orchard type planting. There must be room once the trees are full grown to allow some direct sun to get to the understory. There are very few food bearing plants that will produce much in full shade. How much space that is depends on the type of tree, as Guy stated, and what your intentions are. Planting the trees, which will likely be the canopy or tallest feature, to the South and stepping down from there as you move North is a great way to allow sun to the understory, but how much gets there will depend on canopy size and your latitude. I'm far enough North that even directly under my trees there is often direct sun on the South side. When planning your tree plantings be thinking about what other plants you will have around. For instance, raspberries, which I'm enjoying greatly right now, will need sun, and some room to spread. You'll want to think of those things when you are spacing your trees so you can save some sun for other things you'd like to establish successfully.

Thank you pa_friendly_guy and Matt.........now I have direction: I MUST carefully choose a "few" dwarf fruit trees and ensure I place them correctly so that I can underplant with all the other goodies which will still receive enough sunlight (if I do it right).

So........ is the theory of planting standard fruit trees closer together to limit their size a "figment of my imagination" or does it really work?

Edit: I knew I didn't imagine it ......this is what I just found today (with measurements) Woo hoo!
Lot's of pruning though
http://deepgreenpermaculture.com/backya ... d-culture/
I think I'm still going to stick with the decision to buy dwarf varieties though (less fussin and more growin)

I read the article you linked to and it seems most interesting. I'd like to know how this technique works for you. Please keep us posted of your progress. Even though my space isn't so limited, this may be a good way to plant some food forest islands around which paddock shifted poultry could be rotated.

I will do that......I'm going with dwarf varieties mainly but planning on popping a couple of standards into one hole and seeing how they go. Now that I've found out how to do photo's properly (thanks Matt) I'll put a couple of photo's up as well when I get the tree's in.